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Patrick Stokes has been with Salesforce for over a decade — but he’s had a number of roles during that time. The executive vice president of product and industries marketing told Business Insider he feels uncomfortable when he’s not learning.

When deciding on a career change, though, Stokes said he finds that often people “think too narrowly” about switching roles. For example, they may only want to change roles if they feel like they’re moving up on the organization chart.

“It’s really hard to find that sometimes,” Stokes said.

Stokes said he likes to play chess, and there’s a concept in the game called a “gambit,” where you make what appears to be a bad move, but it’s actually designed to get a reaction from an opponent. Stokes said that’s how he likes to think about his career changes — seemingly risky in the moment, but strategic long term.

“When I first went into marketing, a lot of my peers in product were like, ‘Why are you going to marketing?’ And I’m like, ‘Just wait. It’ll be fine. I’m gonna be great,'” Stokes said.



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